Comment by firelex

Back to stories Open in a window
Comment

Comment by firelex

Hi HN. Jeff is a set of small, open-weight Qwen3.5 and Gemma fine-tunes for zero-shot classification, with respectable out-of-the-box performance, meant to be slotted right into code (or fine-tuned further as needed). You give them a situation and a list of options; they return a calibrated probability for each, in one forward pass, with no text generation. The 2B scores 83.1% on a five-benchmark panel (Jev's published figure: 83.0%); the 0.8B decides in about 28 ms on an M4 Max. Apache 2.0, with a Jev-compatible API (I'm not affiliated with TypeSafe).

When TypeSafe released Jev a couple of weeks ago and then AutoJev appeared, I wanted to see if I could replicate the experiment using only small language models on local hardware. So everything ran at home: one RTX PRO 6000 for training, two DGX Sparks running Qwen3.8-Flash-Next to write the synthetic data, a MacBook for testing, all monitored from my phone over Tailscale.

The caveat: the published Jev and AutoJev numbers are on a different sample of the same benchmarks, and Jeff's overall score comes from classification-style tasks (96% on Financial PhraseBank, 86-89% on RAGTruth, both above Jev). On multi-step reasoning it's behind: BBH 64-68% against Jev's 94%, and about 50% on JevBench's hard tier against 73%. That isn't surprising, and I don't think it matters: no 0.8B or 2B model reasons like a large one, and nobody should expect it to. These are extremely fast judgement-callers. In one of my apps I use the 0.8B for voice navigation; a quick fine-tune (about half an hour on one GPU) took it from 32% to 96% on held-out commands, at about 40 ms per decision.

The fun part: games, as a zero-shot test. Games aren't the ideal zero-shot test, but they're fun, and TypeSafe did it with Jev too. There was no game data in training. Each turn the code describes the situation and the moves in words, and the model picks one; the options say what each move leads to, never which one is right. Over 20 episodes each:

- Doom (ViZDoom): Jeff 0.8B 6.55 kills per episode, the same as a hand-coded bot and as Jev's published run. Jev's prompt spells out the aiming rule and takes about 212 ms per call over its API; Jeff gets "the nearest monster is a little to your left" and decides in about 29 ms on my Mac.

- Frogger: 10.3 crossings, level with the hand-coded bot (10.25), and 10x the untrained base model (1.0).

- Pac-Man: 57 of 98 pellets, about 60% of the bot's score and 2x the untrained model.

Videos of every run are linked in the README.

Lessons learned:

- System 1 models are here to stay. Being able to process unstructured data at software speed inside an app is extremely powerful, and being able to do it locally is fantastic.

- A small model is a classifier, not a planner. Models of 0.8B-2B don't reason like Qwen3.8-27B or Jev, and they don't need to: present the options the right way and you get 40+ decisions per second, depending on your hardware.

- Fine-tune it if needed. If zero-shot isn't good enough for your task, a short fine-tune on your own examples is.

- Wording matters enormously. Giving Frogger's final step the same words as every other forward option ("safe, and one row closer to the goal") took one episode from 15 crossings to 23. Before that, the frog just stayed on the last log.

- Bigger isn't better. The untrained 2B is already more risk-averse than the untrained 0.8B (in Doom it prefers turning away from the nearest monster), and training made it hesitate in Pac-Man. That's probably why the 0.8B beat the 2B.

- Benchmarks don't predict play. Untrained Gemma 4 E2B beats both untrained Qwens on the benchmarks (62.5%) and plays every game worst: right most of the time, but not reliably, and in a real-time loop the mistakes compound.

Replies firelex · 3d
Open on HN
Loading the discussion…

Domain filters

Stories from these domains are hidden from every list. Subdomains match too: blocking substack.com also hides danluu.substack.com.

    About YAVCHN

    YAVCHN is a reader for Hacker News and Lobsters, with articles and discussions in separate windows or Classic pages.

    Created by Paul Parks and built with PUDL.

    YAVCHN source code on GitHub

    Help

    Keyboard

    j / k
    Move down and up the story list. The arrow keys scroll whatever has focus.
    Enter
    Read the marked story in the article reader.
    ]
    Read the next story in the same article-reader applet. Back returns to the previous story.
    p
    Pin or unpin the marked story, which keeps it in Pinned.
    n / N
    Move to the next or previous top-level comment in the window in front.
    c
    Collapse or expand that comment.
    f
    Hide or show the story list.
    Esc
    Close a menu or this help.
    Access key m
    Go to the menu bar. Most browsers take it with Alt on Windows and Linux, and Safari with Control and Option.
    ?
    Show this help.

    Windows

    Each story opens in a window holding its article above its discussion; drag the bar between them to share the room differently. A window can be moved by its title bar, resized from any edge, snapped to a half or a corner by dragging it there, maximised, or minimised to the bar at the foot of the page. Use Window > New reader window to open an empty reader, or a story row's Open in new reader window button to compare articles. Docked readers keep their articles when you select another story from the sidebar. Minimized readers can be restored and reused for their site. A window's Next story link reads on down the list in the same window.

    A link in a comment or an article to another Hacker News or Lobsters thread opens that thread in a window too. A link to a single HN comment opens the comment above its replies.

    While a story's window is in front, the Story and Discussion menus in the menu bar hold its commands: pinning, Next story, sorting, collapsing every thread, jumping to the first new comment. Each window also remembers where you were in its article and discussion, so a reload, or Back to a story that Next took you past, finds your place again. Closing a window forgets it.

    The whole arrangement lives in the address, so a bookmark or a shared link brings it back, and Back undoes the last change. Moving between Hacker News, Lobsters, their lists, Pinned and Find changes only the list, and leaves the windows open.

    The list

    The pin at the start of a row keeps the story in Pinned, and the cross at its end hides it. Pinned can be narrowed by words in the title, site or author, by source, and to the stories you haven't opened yet, and ordered by when you pinned them, by points or by comments; the filters are part of the address, so a filtered view can be bookmarked. Scroll past the end of the list to load more. Domain filters, in the View menu, hide every story from a site.

    Browsing view

    View > Windowed and View > Classic select the browsing view and save your default in this browser. Window view reuses a reader for each feed. Classic view opens stories and applets as pages. Open as a page and Open in a window are one-off actions that do not change your saved default. Direct page links always open as pages.

    Applets

    The Applets menu in the menu bar holds three tools, each a window of its own. Replies to me takes your Hacker News user name and lists the replies to your last thirty comments and stories, checking again every three minutes while it is open, and marking what is new since you last marked them read. Look up a user opens a profile on Hacker News or Lobsters, with their submissions and recent comments, as a commenter's name in any discussion does; the bar at the top of a profile looks up someone else in the same window, and Back returns to the one before. Who is hiring? filters the posts of HN's monthly hiring threads by the words you type.

    They read only what the sites publish to everyone, so none of them asks for a login, and your user name stays in this browser.

    Find

    Find takes any link and lists every time it was submitted to Hacker News and Lobsters, so you can read each discussion of it.

    About

    YAVCHN never sees your Hacker News or Lobsters login. The discussion is fetched from each site's public API; to vote or reply, follow the link above the discussion, or the arrow beside a comment, to the source's own site. Pins, hidden stories, filters and layout are kept in this browser only.

    Open source: github.com/paulmooreparks/yavchn. Built with PUDL.